winchester model 12 simmons rib

Possible the fore end has been either replaced or re done. Their attitude is summed up by Elmer Keith in Shotguns by Keith: the satisfaction of seeing big ducks crumple at long range and come down and bounce on the ground or splash high in the water is the cream of shotgun shooting., It is my view that the long-range duck-hunting cult was a legacy from the days of market hunting. The Model 21 received duck gun status in 1940, although 3-inch chambers could be ordered earlier. The price in 1963 was $122 compared to $109.50 for the standard Model 12. Only rib extensions of the same width as the factory ventilate drib are found on receivers of duck guns. This fine shotgun comes from the factory with a Cutts choke system, Metal surfaces rate near excellent, handling marks to wood. We join Buckingham in his ducking skiff as he is poled through the bayou by Ab, his black guide. Dolphin, I agree with you until the part where you imply that Model 12s were sent to Simmons for ribs and then sent back to Winchester to sell. Remington's Nylon 66 semi-automatic .22 LR rifles have grown from 1950s bargain buys to 21st century collectors darlings. 1937 2pin vent rib offerd, all skeet grade guns offerd with solid or plain barrels. Classic Browning Light Twelve Auto-5 Review: Busting Clays With the Old Humpback Shotgun. There are currently no customer product questions on this lot. I put one of those BIG soft foam risers on the comb and shot it that way for years. I don't believe it has been fired. Winchester proof steel is chrome-molybdenum steel. The help you need is to get a life. However, Winchesters ribs were not marked with the Simmons name and Kansas City address as mine is. Winchester Pre War Mod 12 Trap 2 Barrel Set 12ga, Winchester Pre 64 Mod 12 DU Illinios No.1 Engraved by M Dubber, WINCHESTER MODEL 12 HEAVY DUCK 12GA 3 INCH MAGNUM, Winchester Model 12 16 Gauge rare 2-barrel set, Used Browning BT99 Plus 12 gauge 28" bbl fixed choke mod good condition no box no manuals, WINCHESTER MODEL 12 16GA PUMP ACTION SHOTGUN, Winchester Mod 12 Vent Rib B-Carved Wood 12ga, "Winchester Model 12 Shotgun 12 Gauge (W12258), Winchester, Ducks Unlimited, Model 12, 12 Ga, Shotgun, Winchester Model 21 Heavy Duck, 12ga, 30" 3" mag, Briley Chokes, Winchester Model 12 12 ga. Deluxe Skeet grade w/ factory Cutts, Winchester Model 1912 Nickel Steel 20 gauge 24" VR bbl EARLY Serial #. It is at my engraver now. The ducks shot by me in the accompanying photograph were taken with Skeet boring and trap loads of #7 1/2-shot. Winchester symbol # G1285S. Western brought out their Super-X 2-3/4 and 3-inch shotshells in 1921. another state. The vent rib is stamped "SIMMONS GUN SPECIALTIES INC. KANSAS CITY, MO.". One of my favorite subjectsI've read and reread the books by Madis, Riffle, and Stadt, and I still find it a little confusing. I know the patent date for this rib was 1919. But for some reason, buying a gun online can This is a shotgun I should never have sold. We need to talk model 12's sometime. Winchester designed the Model 42 to use the new shell and the combo went to market in 1932. As to price, it will also depend on gauge, barrel length, choke, barrel steel, wood type, pad vs. plate, etc. The gun looked to be in excellent condition except some nitwit had inlayed a white plastic diamond in the stock at some point. Ab steadies the boat. Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Winchester Model 12 12 ga 26" oal aftermarket poly choke and vent rib at the best online prices at eBay! IC CHOKED MIROKU MADE. In 1960, length of pull was increased to 13-3/4 inches on duck guns. Duck hunters bought 12-gauge doubles with 3-inch chambers to use the new Super-X magnum load, the Super Twelve as it was soon called. the ventilated rib is by simmons gin works. Winchester undertook preparations for improvements in its firearms line following World War II. Some will even go 85% to 90%, but rarely. Keith, who obtained Askins Ithaca 10 magnum double upon Askins death, achieved 93% patterns with two ounces of copper-plated#3 shot in the big double. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. At Guns.com, if an FFL is Eight major concealed carry insurance programs are now available to the millions of Americans who carry concealed. Mechanically, the Model 12 duck gun differs little in design from the standard Model 12. A smothered roar from around the corner! Like new with a mark on the top of th, Winchester Model 21 Heavy Duck, 12ga, 30" barrels, solid rib, 3" mag. Winchester Model 42 Slide Action Shotgun with Simmons Vent RibManufactured in 1952. It won't be a collector but a shooter and should draw some attention. Produced in 1961. Now I have never been wrong about anything in my lifeLOLjust kidding, but the way I read it on the top of page 109JMHOThanks, WC. Smith & Wesson Model 586: Reviewing A .357 Revolver With Class. Auction Date: December 7, 2019 Estimated Price: $ 8,500 - $ 13,000 Price Realized: Details Exceptional and Documented Smoothbore Winchester Model 61 Slide Action "Rifle" with Simmons Vent Rib and Box Manufacturer: Winchester Model: 61 Type: Shotgun Gauge: 22 LR Shot Barrel: 24 inch vent rib Finish: blue Grip: Stock: walnut Item Views: 1599 There was only one way to go after World War I: standardize shell lengths, discontinue bastard gauges and reduce the load options. Model 12 duck guns are highly specialized tools for a very limited number of duck hunters who can regularly center a duck at 40-60 yards, and need to. For more information: www.p65warnings.ca.gov. Item . This percentage was disappointing compared to the 80% or better patterns obtained with other duck guns tested by the staff. The era of plentiful ducks and liberal bag limits was also ending. Both guns were disassembled, cleaned and lightly oiled before testing. I am tempted to stop off awhile and call. MAKE OFFER. By signing up you agree to Guns.com's It was John Olin who inspired Westerns revolutionary Super-Xshotshell in 1921. Bids. This gun is in excellent condition and has very desireable solid rib barrel with full choke. No. says Madis. His shotguns were undoubtedly the best long-range duck guns he found in extensive testing. But I manage to concentrate, find the combination, and center a pair of easy sprigs. The latest 2-pin rib gun researched has a serial number of 19114xx with a date of August 26th, 1960. Free Shipping, No Credit Card Fees. Buttstocks of duck guns had lead slugs inserted into the wood beneath the recoil pad. Gun Digest editors know guns so you know guns. Number 8 and 2 shot provided wider and more even patterns with no center thickening. The survival of both Western and Winchester now depended on Olin management. Including this gun, they found a total of 4 gun with a 1919 date. I was in Jr college then. "Metal parts of the Model 12 are machined from chrome-molybdenum, the toughest, longest wearing and finest gun steel known." Barrel lengths were 30 or 32 inches, but 32-inch barrels were discontinued in 1948. WINCHESTER MODEL 12 HEAVY DUCK GUN 30" SIMMONS VENT RIB 1953 PRE-64 RARE 12 GA. MAGNUM 3" EDITION PROOF MARKING - 12 GAUGE MAGNUM - 5 - 30 " w/ 22" barrel in original box w/ paperwork 1 of 1,000 #UG5 2 Paul Jaeger Jenkintown, PA. 30-06 cal. at the best online prices at eBay! Lay-a-way available for t, Excellent overall condition sporting original finishes. The 30" vent rib barrel is very good with a bright shiny bo, This Winchester Model 12 in 12 Gauge is in good condition with moderate wear to the wood surfaces and light thinning of the bluing on the barrel. In the 1950's Winchester's costs were losing pace with what they were ablle to sell their products for. Its been debated over the years if the solid rib model 12 barrel were silver brazed or fused with heat? Here's what it's like to shoot this classic scattergun. An incredible collector grade limited production 1953 Model 12 HEAVY DUCK GUN SIMMONS VENT RIB that is offered below Blue Book value. Winchester Model 12 12 GA For Sale Winchester 12 GA Model 12. The trap load was included because trap shooting is suited to the duck gun. very accurate description and fast delivery, HOCH Reloading Single Cavity Mold c56 309170 .309 170gr nose pour NICE (#334593408927), Arrived quickly, well packaged, item is as described. The magnum led to new class of long-range double-barrel shotguns for waterfowl. I also have seen a few in my day where the solid rib was removed and actually sent a customers Black Diamond to Simmons back in the seventies to put a vent rib on a solid rib gun. seller description. Askins Ithaca 10-gauge double with 2 7/8-inch chambers averaged 86.9% with 1 5/8-ounces of shot. I wish I had them back! Simmons also removed Solid Ribs from barrels and added his rib to those barrels. Although acquired many years apart, the two duck guns are of nearly the same vintages, 1952 and 1953. Nickel and ivory sight beads on the aftermarket Simmons rib, with choke marked full and 2 3/4 inch chamber. Thought behind it was that a taller rib on the bbl and a higher comb on the stock would help prevent "head lifting". . The perimeter of the disc was then marked and the enclosed pellet holes counted. Here-tofore, you could only shoot this weight of shot in a 10-gauge double gun with 2 7/8-inch chambers, or the new Ithaca Magnum 10. Remington re-tooled from the M31 to the stamp, push and press 870 which sold for less than the M12. Checkered semi-fancy walnut pistol grip stock with extended forearm and a solid Winchester recoil pad. It is first shooting light. But it would be my guess that the wood has been refinished and the gun has been reblued. Askins wrote in his 1929 book Modern Shotguns and Loads: Perhaps half the game that is killed in America today is shot with repeating shotguns, pump or automatic. Skeet gun marked "2 7/8" chamber skeet 28 gauge. It was Western that produced the 3 1/2-inch 10-gauge magnum with 2 ounces of shot in 1932. Thanks= Re-Up- forgot the offset marks on a factory ribbed gun- two of my 5 pre-1950 M12's have the factory solid rib, and the 1948 Pigeon Trap has the "Old Milled Rib" with the sandblast bulled top and the "Duck-Billed" rib extension. The Gun and the Times The Model 12 duck gun examined by the staff of the American Rifleman in 1936 was the earliest version. is 14" with pad. The Model 12, already 23 years old, was one of many successful designs by Thomas C. Johnson. The stock finish is original and excellent. Helping out a person with 3378 posts who if they spent 5min. - Top Rated Plus - opens in a new window or tab, - eBay Money Back Guarantee - opens in a new window or tab. Winchester Model 12 Pigeon 28 Gauge Single Family Owned Since 1967, Vent. M, ventilated rib, mid 1950's manufacture, completely original, only one ever produced by Winchester, ultimate rarity for the Model 12 co, 12ga, #1737096, standard gun that has been restocked and has a Simmons ventilated rib added, 12ga, 30 inch barrel, full choke, 2 3/4 inch chamber, 14 3/4 inch LOP with "Decelerator" pad, blu, Winchester Model 12 - 20ga - 26 - Improved Cylinder- NIB - UNFIRED - SN: MT0162 - AS NEW with high figured wood, Winchester Model 12 28 gauge Skeet solid rib. The first was helping the gunsmiths. The Simmons rib is done at Winchesters direction as it has the WP proof offset from the rib. My wife shot her share of ducks with a 20-gauge autoloader bored Improved Cylinder shooting one ounce of #7 1/2-shot. The earliest Simmons catalog I ever found was 1949 when Ernie began advertising his "Special vent rib" which was the "Dounut Post". Length of pull is 14". The committee appointed to study the requirements for continuing business reported a successful reorganization would require the raising of a substantial amount of new capital. That capital was supplied by the Olin family of Olin Industries, owners of Western Cartridge Company. I have owned a Pigeon grade model 12 trap Dounut vent rib, built late 1955, now that's an oddity, who would order a Pigeon Trap with a Dounut Rib (?) Askins stated in Modern Shotguns and Loads: All shotguns which are intended for long range work.should be patterned at 60 yards. Continuing, loads which pattern around 85% [at 40 yards] have that quality which will permit them to continue a pattern on down the range.Askins found that each yard of range beyond 40 yards reduced pattern density by an average of two percent. Since you in Kansas; ever deal with now deceased Felix Bedlan @ Fairbury, Neb. Twelve magnum guns grew lighter over the years and consequently kick harder. Stock is very fine, with light scratching, pressure dents and an attractive grain pattern. Serial numbers match on barrel and receiver. This likely was the last mention of solid ribs in Winchester literature. The duck gun was discontinued in 1963. K-Mart Classics: Remingtons Nylon Rimfires Engineered To Last. Very good condition overall. The duck guns reputation was made with the one and five-eighths ounce load, the heaviest 12 magnum load from about 1935 to the mid-1950s. I recently acquired a 1921 gun. These were turned out by the Hunter Arms Company of Fulton, N.Y. in L.C. No Reserve . The slide handle was given a larger diameter, flat bottom and 14 grooves on each side of the handle about 1947. The Model 12 Duck Gun is a highly specialized tool for hunters who need to put a lot of shot on target at 60 yards or more. Beautiful grain pattern and very tight hand checkering on the stock . Note: The posting of Copyrighted material on this forum is prohibited without Add to Cart Winchester 12 12 Gauge (W9744) $995.00 Winchester 12 12 Gauge shotgun. Buy 1955 Winchester Model 12 20 GA Simmons Rib AA+ Wood: GunBroker is the largest seller of Pump Action Shotguns Shotguns Guns & Firearms All: 974012213. Charles Askins commented on the new Model 12 duck gun in the March 1936 issue of Outdoor Life: This should be the best long-range repeating shotgun now made or that has been made. No faint praise, but hardly a surprise. The slide handle of early duck guns was round with 18 circular grooves. Franklin and his two sons John M. Olin and Spencer T. Olin were the managers of Olin Industries and Western Cartridge Company in 1931. Refresh your browser window to try again. The Olins were businessmen first and duck hunters second. Most everything can be easily bought online these days. His handload was a .heavy load of Herco powder and 2 ounces of shot, either 2s or 4s. The 1 5/8-ounce load of the mid-30s bought the 12 magnum a few more yards of range. The locked breech bolts of both guns have little perceptible play when the rear of the bolt is pressed from the side. Western rapidly achieved a leading position in the ammunition industry through innovation and skillful management. Outdoor Hub, LLC (d/b/a Carbon Media Group), 30800 Telegraph Rd, Suite 1921, Bingham Farms, MI 48025 USA. DAC 1 1/2"&n, FRO YOUR VIEWING IS A EXCEPTIONALY NICE MODEL 12 IN 3' HEAVY DUCK. It would stop ducks consistently at 80 yards. Two years after Askins wrote the above, he received from Ithaca the first 3 1/2inch Magnum 10 double off the assembly line. Ithaca brought out their Magnum 10double to use the new shell. I always wondered what the royalty was to Simmons on the Winchester Special Ventilated Rib that they installed. However, the Model 12 duck gun should still be an excellent long-range waterfowl shotgun with the right ammunition. SN 1231992 Up for sale is a very clean and unique Winchester Model 12 in Pigeon Grade. The original "Old milled rib" was developed by Winchester in the 1920's- but like so many of the older quality features, post WW11 competition by Remington and Ithaca made Olin-Winchester more "cost concerned"-- Many Model 12's were equipped with Simmons ribs afterwards, some were sent to New Haven by Simmons, and some Model 12's (and others . Model 12 was offered in several different styles: 1. The famous Winchester Model 1912 pump shotgun was designed by Winchester's Thomas C. Johnson. No Reserve. Winchester proof steel is chrome-molybdenum steel. Most sellers have no idea what they are selling. Every once in a while a Model 12 comes through our club with a high Moneymaker rib like that. WARNING! 28" vent rib, full choke barrel with front bead sight. JavaScript is disabled. Sales of 100,000 were recorded in the first two years of production. Ernie Simmons of Olathe, Kansas, a gunsmithing "whiz-kid" and a fairly good skeet shooter to boot-they were involved in the later cost-saving Winchester ventilated ribs for various Winchester shotguns- Model 12's, Model 50's, possibly Model 21's-. But getting back to the original question, a Simmons rib does detract from the value of a Model 12 and most people will turn away from them. This is a 12 GA pump shotgun manufactured in 1950. The $48 price tag was right. Westerns innovation was progressive-burning powder that deformed fewer shot during acceleration. Ernie special order model 12's from Winchester to add his Dounut Vent Rib. This product contains chemicals known to the state of California to cause cancer and birth defects or other reproductive harm. We'rebringing a level of Field grade pump gun with Mod choke barrel. The standard 12-gauge duck load in 1921 was a 2 3/4-inch shell holding 3 3/4-drams equivalent powder and 1 1/4-ounces of shot. - for PayPal Credit, opens in a new window or tab, about earning points with eBay Mastercard, Report this item - opens in new window or tab. a post would have spent 281.5 hours trying to correct off handed remarks as a expert about winchester model 12's & 42's. Today I have a nice collection of them, mostly target grade guns. Will Winchester ever build the Model 12 again? Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Winchester Model 12 12 ga 30 in Barrel 2 3/4" Full vent rib Barrel NICE! There is some difference in what they say but are good reference. The 12-gauge 3-inch magnum shotshell was developed to achieve this objective. Saint Charles, Missouri. In fact, Madis states Any twelve gauge Model Twelve could be re-chambered and reworked to shoot three inch shells for a small additional charge[by Winchester], yet few guns were reworked in this way. I can find no external differences in receiver dimensions, other than the ejection port, between standard and magnum versions. Come join the discussion about optics, hunting, gunsmithing, styles, reviews, accessories, classifieds, and more! My favorite 2 pins were Trap Guns made between 1957-1959 including special order Pigeon grades; fit, finish and blueing was best in those later years. I decided to test the patterning of the five loads detailed in the accompanying table. Some patterns of #4 shot might let a duck escape if it were caught just inside the margin of the 30-inch circle. The Model 21 double seemed the reasonable choice for Winchesters duck gun. , Winchester - Model 12, Deluxe, Pump Action, RARE 28ga. Winchester Model 12 in 16 ga with a 26" barrel with a full choke. The duck gun version of the Model 12, introduced in 1935, was a natural consequence of duck hunters in charge of Winchester. I worked in two gun shops when I was in college. Yes the 2-pin milled rib was costly to manufacture. John Olin initiated an analysis of Winchesters commercial line in 1942. Although the quality of the rib will be the same as the original Winchester, the only way a Simmons rib looks OK on a Model 12 is if they DON'T put their silly name down the side of the rib. ORIGINAL BOX INCLUDED. When I dress Western, nothing beats the classic good looks of my Smith & Wesson (S&W) 586 .357 revolver. This shotgun is in near new condition in the original box. It was an immediate success. To elaborate on lowgun's response, the "round post" rib was made by Simmons, not Winchester. For example, only about 300 Super Fox and 800 of the Ithaca Magnum 10 doubles went into hunters hands during the period. . Click here for more information. Manufactured in 1962. For small bores, there are still new factory wood sets available. So a shooter really doesnt need a rib. That luck ran out following World War I when the arms industry declined and the management of Winchester was relinquished to outsiders. I included tungsten polymer shot because it is non-toxic to waterfowl and has the same density as lead. In duck shooting the proportion of magazine guns in use is much higher, probably four men in five using the repeater. Askins added, Fact is, personally, I have always thought that I was surer on the second bird with a repeater than I was with a double gun. On gauges for duck hunting: No fault is to be found with the twelve [gauge] as a duck gun, whether in double barrel with 3 inch cases or in repeaters with 2 3/4 inch. This was after extensive reworking of the chokes by Ithaca. Standard Grade: 12-, 16-, 20- and 28-gauge; plain, solid or ventilated rib round barrels; standard lengths 26", 28", 30", 32"; plain walnut pistol-grip stock; grooved slide handle. Keep in mind that all of these changes in stock design were running changes and thus some overlapping of designs occurred in production. Every cowboy needs a revolver. Stadt's book is a very good book that alot of people don't seem to know about. From its debut until the end of the 1950's, the Winchester Model 1912 was the pump shotgun, long known as "the perfect repeater." The Winchester Model 12 Heavy Duck Gun Proved Itself a Shooter, Colt No Longer Exclusive Owner of M4 Rifle, Mossberg 940 Pro Turkey & Tactical Review: Shotgun Shangri-La, SHOT Show 2023 Picks: Fossari CRX9 Sporting Over/Under, SHOT Show 2023 Picks: Browning Citori High Grade 50th Anniversary, 8 On-Target Concealed Carry Insurance Options (2022), 10 Affordable Double-Barrel Shotgun Options (2022), Best AR-15 Options For Any Budget And Buyers Guide (2022), Best Concealed Carry Handguns For Women (2022). A new chamber ring and a # 1 heavy draw adjusting sleeve. Winchester advises Do not use steel shot in any Winchester shotgun with a fixed choke. Use tungsten polymer, tungsten matrix or bismuth shot for waterfowl hunting with your Model 12 duck gun.

winchester model 12 simmons rib 2023